To Beef Up School Security, Lawmakers Turn to Firearms
While the federal government and other states ponder more rigorous gun control laws following the shootings at a Connecticut elementary school, some legislators in Texas have taken the opposite approach. They have emphasized the need to make firearms more available, and their discussions have included increasing access for teachers and other school personnel.
Ahead of the 83rd legislative session, bills have been proposed with that mission in mind. The efforts have drawn the praise of statewide elected officials including Gov. Rick Perry. But even lawmakers who support arming school personnel can disagree on how to go about it — and other ...
Comments (30)
Philip Diehl
A serious question: is it lawful to carry a gun onto the floor of the Texas House and Senate? How about through the gates of the Governor's Mansion?
Jerry Patterson
There is a prohibition on carrying at a "meeting of a government entity" but that prohibition is applicable only if "effective notice" is given via a specific type of sign. Both the house or senate choose not to post that sign. Bottom line is yes, it is legal to carry a gun in the capitol, including floor of house and senate, and it is legal to go through the gates of the Governors mansion. Jerry Patterson (author of Texas CHL)
Samdavis
There's virtually nothing that having guns in schools can fix and so many things that can go wrong. Imagine a middle school teacher having to keep track of a classroom and be vigilant about where a gun is stored. The number of potential lawsuits the state will face is mind boggling.
Philip Diehl
Thanks for the answer, Jerry. I wonder how long that law will stand after an angry constituent enters the gallery and votes to term limit a few legislators with whom he has a bone to pick. But even then, considering the grip the NRA has on the GOP, I suppose the law would survive.
Christopher Rivas via Texas Tribune on Facebook
3 cops shot and wonder today in a NJ police station. If only they had guns...
raffaele cafagna
Politically anti-gun fanatic Senators Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer both have special-issue personal Concealed Carry Licenses from their home states of California and New York, respectively, both of which aren't easy to get for us peasant-folk even when our lives are in equivalent jeopardy to theirs! Bloomberg has 5 body guards and personal concealed carry.
The prestigious Washington, DC school where Barack Obama sends his two daughters has 11 ARMED security officers as standard operating procedure for ALL of its students and is moving to hire a new police officer in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting by a madman.
In the last years we have provided direct cash aid to
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: EPA costs US economy $353 billion per year -- . money for failed green energy companies, chevy volts, abortions, gays getting married at West Point and of course obamanotcare, Also, we have plenty of funds to spend on TSA agents to search little toddlers and old ladies in wheelchairs on a daily basis! to the Welfare, Food Stamps, Medicaid or "Obama phone" programs, wasted BILLIONS of dollars on crony-connected, "green energy" boondoggles that failed miserably, all the ACORN affiliates/umbrella groups got tons of money to make sure the welfare bums made it to the polling places.....; increased foreign aid by 80%, each year Billions of our tax dollars to just about every country in the world now. Over $300 Billion is spent on illegal aliens each year.
Billions spent on some of the most stupid grant studies, WHY ASIAN WOMEN HAVE SEX WHEN THEY ARE DRUNK , A SHRIMP ON A TREADMILL ,WHY A BEE FLIES and on and on. There are so much nonsense they spend our money on. But THEY quietly LET FEDERAL FUNDING FOR SEVERAL KEY SCHOOL SECURITY PROGRAMS LAPSE IN THE NAME OF BUDGET SAVINGS and NO BUDGET in the last 4 years.
Government plan...DISARM American Citizens... GUN FREE ZONES IS WHERE THE BIG MASSACRES TAKE PLACE
Yea lets punish those guns , but the Mental Criminal that pulls the trigger goes Free.
Chris Thornton via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Teachers in Texas can conceal-carry on campus if the school district allows it. It's already allowed in Harrold ISD.
Sheri Alexander via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Future teacher LEAVING my home state. I'll never teach here, this state is anti education, anti science anti sex ed, not respectful of teachers and this proves anti common sense. So many things wrong with this. Bye Texas, goodluck.
John Dettling via Texas Tribune on Facebook
There were a lot of days as a high school teacher that it was a good thing I did not have access to a gun. I might have made the evening news.
Jerry Patterson
Phillip, If a constituent wants to shoot a member, there are many times/places that could be done. Prohibited locations do nothing to enhance safety. They just create in the mind of a mentally deranged person that he can shoot with impunity. When I passed the CHL in 1995, there was an amendment offerd to make the capitol off limits to CHLs. I killed it because if the legislature thought CHL was a good thing for Texas, it also follows its a good thing for the capitol. JP
Jerry Patterson
Sam Davis, Who said anything about an armed middle school teacher? The proposal is to have competent armed persons at schools. We already have police at middle and high schools (HISD has a police force of 200 officers). That person could be a cop, and armed security guard, or a school staff member such as a principal, vice principal, coach, and yes, a teacher. The anti gun folks are doing what they usually do, and that is to argue the absurd. They imply are we/the NRA are proposing to arm every teacher, and they cry "we need fewer, not more guns in schools". These hoplophobes need to stop the bumper sticker cliches, and objectively consider the proposal. This ain't aboout a gun in every classroom. Google "Pearl MS school shooting" and you'll find the carnage was stopped by an armed teacher. There are 3 more similar examples. JP
WUSRPH
Why add another middleman (a cop)? Just one will not do the job...He may be at the wrong door or in the bathroom when the need arises...so, let's make sure everybody is safe by arming the kids.... That way everyone can protect his or herself...Of course, it will add a whole new level to playground squabbles...but that is just the price we have to pay to be safe (sic).
D W
where is the money to come from to fund this? since we couldn't fund education last time, without it just where will the money come from now?
Jerry Patterson
WUSRPH, "Arguing the absurd", you made my previous point! Re: kids in school with guns, in Jr High I took an 1853 Enfield muzzleloader to school for show and tell. While waiting outside for the doors to open @0745, I talked a teacher into giving me a hall pass to take it to my home room so I wouldn't have to carry it around all day. No swat teams, no lock down, no "gun free" school zone, just a kid with a gun for show and tell. Of course that was 1959. I guess things have changed. We're so much safer now with all these "sensible" gun laws...JP
Mary Shane Hood-Latulippe via Texas Tribune on Facebook
So the drug free gun free zone signs in front of our schools mean nothing. In my district we all ready have sheriff officers with guns. I have never seen them draw their weapons.
David Doss
Arming teachers is an overreaction. The Connecticut mass murder was especially disturbing because children were killed, but overall schools are very safe places. The National Center for Education Statistics reports that approximately 50 million students attended almost 100,000 public schools in grades prekindergarten through 12 this fall, and they had about 3.3 million full-time equivalent teachers. It has been six years since the last school shooting incident, so if we assume that about the same number of students and teachers were in schools over these years, then the probability of a child being killed at school is about 1 in 15 million per year. For school staff the probability might be about 1 in 3.3 million.
The events in Newtown were truly tragic for the families involved and for the local community, those who were directly affected by the event. For the rest of us, however, the events were disturbing but only through vicarious experience. The immediacy of 24-7 news coverage on TV and online makes us hypersensitive to events, and we experience events in other places as if they occurred down the street, and we exaggerate their meaningfulness to ourselves and our families and friends. There's a lot of overreaction going on.
Jerry Patterson
David Doss, You make a valid point. Schools are very safe places to be, and there is some overreaction going on, from both "sides". However, while extra police security costs money, a principal/vice principal/coach/designated teacher costs almost nothing, so if that is an overreaction, its an inexpensive one. Assuming the principal etc are competent, comfortable, and adequately trained, I think its an idea worhty of serious consideraton. I carry a handgun that I never expect to use. I have a smoke alarm that I expect will never be of use either. Most cops who retire have never fired their weapon except on the range. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be armed. Nonetheless and as you imply, we should avoid knee jerk reaction and hysteria. JP
Samdavis
Mr Patterson, after reading your distortions and defense of the loathsome NRA, it appears that the perception our elected officials in Texas are idiots is once again proved correct. People on a state level are talking about allowing teachers to carry guns in school.
Many of the "anti-gun" crowd are people like me, a CHL holder and Vietnam Vet who think that accessibility to guns is too easy and that the situation will only get worse if left in the hands of elected officials like you Greg Abbott and Rick Perry.
Jim Richardson
Any legislator who has the temerity to propose putting more guns among citizens should be defeated at the next election. There are those of us who are "good guys WITHOUT guns" and whose fealty is to our fellow citizens, not the NRA.
David Doss
Yes, Mr. Patterson, I think teachers and principals "packing heat" is an overreaction. After 30+ years in education, I also think it is foolish and out of character for educators. As emotionally appealing as doing “something” in response to the Connecticut shootings is, I really don't see that there is anything reasonable to be done that has not already been done, and both sides should calm down. We've got a self-reinforcing spiral of rhetoric that is not producing anything reasonable or productive. From my point of view, we have too many people who have drunk the kool-aid of the NRA and lost a sense of perspective where guns are concerned.
William Ardis
Perhaps one of the most troubling comments to another Texas Tribune article about guns in the classroom came from Mr. Patterson. He said, “In all these mass shootings where we have a deranged person in complete and absolute control, another person there with a handgun or a firearm would change the dynamic, even if that person was a terrible shot,” What if that "terrible shot" hits an innocent person? How much "collateral damage" is acceptable?
He also claims " a principal/vice principal/coach/designated teacher costs almost nothing, so if that is an overreaction, its an inexpensive one." So there is a cost, and who will bear it? The state (most likely no) or the ISD/teacher (most likely yes). And what if something goes wrong (like a terrible shot), who pays the cost (lawsuits) then?
This solution seems more like playing politics (and trying to win the favor of the NRA) than seriously addressing the problem.
Philip Diehl
Mr. Patterson,
First, thank you for participating in this discussion and defending your position, or I suppose it could be the position of your Citizens United friends at the NRA.
In any case, I've seen targets at the shooting range that have fewer holes in them than your "let's spend scarce education funds to turn our schools into free-fire zones in the name of protecting our children" argument. The argument, itself, is remarkable but what makes it truly audacious is that you were responsible for denying Texas public schools $300 million dollars in the current biennium.
You committed to your GOP colleagues in the legislature to provide those funds out of the Permanent School Fund. and based on your commitment, the legislature cut the education budget by $300 million, expecting you to make it up, and enacted legislation giving you the flexibility to do so. But you reneged. (I know; you've denied all this, but several of your GOP colleagues in the legislature are on the record confirming this account.)
So you deny Texas school children $300 million for their education and call for diverting more money to hire guards at every school in the state while turning our schools into armed camps. No wonder rational people look at Texas politicians with mouth agape.
Now, turning to your response to Sam Davis: you reference the Pearl, MS school shooting of 1997. As is often the case with the NRA types, this example does not make the point you claim it does. The problem for ya'll is that Google makes it so easy to check the facts.
The Pearl HS shooter killed three and wounded seven on school grounds. The killing was NOT stopped by an armed school administrator. The shooter had already finished his work and was in his car preparing to leave when the administrator prevented his escape; he didn't stop the killing.
It's interesting you had to go back 15 years to find an example to cite--and it doesn't support your case.
David Spratt
In the interest of public safety Texas should publish the names and addresses of all people who do not own a gun. This will save lives. Criminals will not be injured or killed by gun owners that way while committing crimes and those who are strongly anti gun can choose to live together in these areas.
Jerry Patterson
Philip Diehl, You simply don't know what you're talking about re: the $300 million. Re: the Pearl MS school shootings, the accounts I've read indicate the shooter was leaving the High School because he heard the police sirens, and was going to the nearby JR High with the intent to kill more kids. He was stopped when a teacher retrieved a .45 from his car and stopped him at gunpoint. One can assume that had the teacher had the gun on his person, or readily accessible, and didn't have to go to the car to get it, fewer kids would have died. While I can say you are absolutely wrong about the $300 million because I, not you, know all the facts, I can't say with the same certainty you are wrong about Pearl MS, because I haven't read the police report. JP
Samdavis
Mr. Patterson, it's obvious by your comments that you haven't read anything beyond NRA propaganda.
hans5162@ix.netcom.com hans
Typical, dumbass, redneck Texas response. Jerry Patterson is they guy who wanted to sell a state park to a private individual rather than protect it by giving it to the federal government, because they wouldn't allow guns in a national park. More guns everywhere has not made us safer. We've been doing that for the last 30 years. Teachers, coaches and principals have enough to do. They are under assault by not only crazed gunmen, but they are routinely attacked by our political leadership in this state. Our brilliant legislature, with the full support of our Governor, cut $5.4 billion dollars from the education budget. They then proclaim that they increased the education budget. It's a flat out lie. Why should we believe anything they say. When they tell you that they're concerned about school safety, you should look at the real motivation. They're concerned about doing nothing to impact gun sales, as the NRA is a big supporter of the American Legislative Exchange Council, where most of the stupidest laws in Texas originate. There is not a single legislator or holder of a state-wide office in Texas who is capable of having an original thought. Jerry Patterson is no better than the rest of them. They know no limits to their capacity for mendaciousness.
Christine Lund
Two students could disarm any teacher. What a foolish idea! If we worry about guns in schools now, wait until they have several choices of people to disarm. Schools are not the place for weapons. Let's make sure all the students take classes from Chuck Norris and at least we'll have students capable of defending themselves. There's less chance of violence in places where people feel secure in their ability to handle themselves. Let's get all the guns off the streets and back into lockboxes where they belong. Especially assault weapons and large ammo clips.
Philip Diehl
Jerry,
Well, I haven't seen the police reports on the theft of $300 million from Texas public schools, but I've read plenty of police statements and court testimony re the Pearl High School shooting. I recommend you expand your sources beyond the NRA newsletter and other gun-loving websites your account is drawn from. As multiple independent (non-gunnut) sources make clear, the shooter was stopped after he finished his killing spree. The administrator and his gun saved no one at the school.
Also, it's relevant that during the shooting, the killer actually stopped to apologize to a wounded victim telling him he didn't mean to hit him. I wonder how many others would need apologies if there had been two or more shooters exchanging fire at the school.
Your proposal to arm administrators, teachers, security guards is ludicrous and would simply lead to an arms race. School administrators have revolvers or shot guns? Shooter brings an automatic loaded with a high capacity magazine. And so on. Thanks to you and your friends at the NRA, you don't even have to leave home to buy these weapons; order them online and they'll be delivered straight to your home.
I've been reading something else of interest: the list of your campaign contributors. In the 2010 election cycle, your top four contributors were all right-wing public-school-fund-cutting, gun-loving groups and individuals: the Grass Roots Institute of Texas, Robert Perry, Harold Simons, and Albert Huddleston, who gave you at least $175,000. Who knows how much pass passed through other entities. That's a pretty impressive haul from only four sources.
And then there are all those stories on the NRA website about how you and the NRA are joined at the hip on the Right to Pack in national parks, on buses, in parking lots, on state, city and county property (despite a court ruling to the contrary), in the Railroad Commission building, I could go on.
You have no credibility on this issue. You're part of the problem.
yana guana
Did you know your children have a higher chance of getting struck by lightning at school than getting shot? This being the case, more should be done to prevent lightning strikes at school.
What really is happening is trigger happy zealots are taking this opportunity to arm themselves to the teeth, Those guns at school will not be used to defend children, they will be used against children in moments of passion. Remember that girl that was shot holding a hair brush, the authority thought it was a gun.
Alice Taylor
Here's a few questions from this high school teacher...
If a kid gets a hold of a teacher's gun and accidentally kills/hurts himself or others, who will be liable for that, the school or the teacher?
What is the acceptable cost/benefit ratio of having a weapon in the classroom? What is the acceptable number of hurt/killed kids in Texas by accidentally discharged weapons vs the number of kids killed by random nuts like what happened at Sandy Hook? I'd love to know how many hurt kids the lege thinks is OK every year as the acceptable number of collateral damage in order to allow one teacher the POSSIBILITY of taking down a crazed gunman. How many crazed gunman have been shooting up Texas schools this last year? This last decade?
If I'm shot by another teacher's accidental discharge of a weapon, can I sue the school district? If I know of a teacher who has a CHL and carries a gun on campus and I feel is unstable and scares me, does that mean I'm working in a hostile work environment?
Will the school districts pay for ongoing, specialized training for these Super-Teachers that are going to act as Air Marshals? Will they pay for the weapons, the weapon's maintenance and storage? Will they pay for liability insurance?
Will the school districts tell parents which teachers are packing and who isn't? Can a parent pull a student from a classroom if they disagree with having their kid in a classroom with a teacher wearing a loaded weapon?
If I choose NOT to be armed, will that count against me on my PDAS? Or does having a weapon come under "appropriate use of technology"?
Will the legislature ever learn to talk to teachers and education professionals before they come up with crazy-ass ideas in response to the education meme of the moment?