The State of the Gun
Texas is the poster state for guns, and we probably won’t have the same full-spectrum debate on gun violence at the state level that voters elsewhere will see in the wake of the killings at the elementary school in Connecticut.
Even in those other precincts, the meaningful part of the debate probably won’t last long; those who hope to change the gun laws will have to act quickly, before everyone drifts back to whatever position they held before Newtown.
The proposals cover familiar ground, from disarmament and new restrictions on guns and accessories to escalation and expanded rights ...
Comments (46)
Richard Thorne
I like Jason's idea of allowing select trained individuals in the schools. Shoot the bad guys where they stand.
A B
The 2nd amendment was put in the constitution so that the people can protect themselves from government tyranny, not so the people can hunt or for sporting purposes. All of the bill of rights is there to protect the people from the government. Back when the bill of rights was added to the constitution, the fire power available to the people was closer to the fire power available to the government, when compared to today. The idea is that the people can protect themselves from government tyranny. This is the highest law of the land. Additionally, banning or restricting guns does not stop criminals from having guns. How many years have drugs been illegal? Drugs are everywhere. Gun bans or restrictions only stop or restrict law abiding citizens from having guns.
A B
It would be ideal to give the teachers with a CHL the option to conceal carry if they want to. If they have a CHL that means they are already carrying a concealed gun everywhere else they are allowed to carry, and obvisiouly it's not a problem. However if this can't be done since there are so many people afraid of guns, maybe we can allow teachers to have a taser. If there are too many people afraid of a taser then maybe we can give them a sword, baseball bat, or at least rocks. Anything is better than what they have now which is one or two staplers they can throw.
Rob Turk via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Texas is filled with people who respect and value life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and protection of one's family and property from crime and from people with evil intentions. We will not accept any imposition of restrictions on our God given right to protect ourselves. We also treat one another with courtesy and politeness because that's the way we were raised. We truly want to see an improved civil landscape and healthier, safer environment for future generations of Texans. We pray for our nation and for our future.
Candyce Byrne via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Are sane people now encouraged to organize to change the political climate of Texas? It is time to stop being intimidated by the gun fetishists, and particularly time to stop electing them to any sort of office. I am tired of living in Crazytown.
Mike Moeller via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I love Texas, unlike most places, this state actually respects the 2nd Amendment.
Jill Meredith Bergene via Texas Tribune on Facebook
To approach our future with the idea that somehow our lives will erupt into a showdown is pretty depressing. Keeping with our strong community spirit and pride to be Texans and Americans, we can work together for everyone's health and happiness. However, guns are part of our society and people usually use them responsibly. No act of legislation will ever be written to "take away guns". Responsible gun owners and our law enforcement officials agree that military grade weapons are best left out of our law-abiding society. That seems a very reasonable compromise.
Gregory S Windham via Texas Tribune on Facebook
In a sensational reaction to the horrific tragedy in Connecticut, the twisted Texas Governor has proposed a solution. Arm the teachers. Let’s make sure Ms. Crabapple is packing heat along with her ruler and chalk. Train educators to properly handle a weapon so that they may be prepared when a soldier of evil decides that he wants to go out in a blaze of infamy.
Of course, as if you didn’t already know, Governor Perry is in a State of Mind somewhere far from here. I wonder….does Mr. Perry want to give guns to the same teachers he berates? I mean these are teachers from school districts across the state that marched on his Capitol building demanding adequate funding for the Texas public schools. These are teachers that blame the Governor for increased class sizes. These are the teachers that had many of their peers and coworkers laid off last year because Rick Perry failed Texas educators. If I were you Governor, I would not want these particular set of teachers toting concealed weapons.
His half-baked, crack brained ideas come as no surprise to Texans. We have been forced to endure this phony cowboy stooge because he wins elections by landslides. The Democratic Party continues to nominate middle of the road, sensible, proven policy makers. That won’t win in Texas. To beat crazy, you better get crazier. Finding someone as maniacal as Perry won’t be easy but the beds are full at Austin State Hospital and the search is best begun there.
Let me get this straight Governor. The teachers you demean, take for granted, put down, and disgrace are going to represent your hysterical response to an event that took place across the country. Hold your horses. The long suffering teachers of Texas have had their backs against the wall for too long with too much responsibility, too little pay, and nominal recognition from you. Give them guns and they may just be gunning for you. Come on Governor, anyone that wants to put guns in the hands of elementary school teachers has never dated one.
Mike Moeller via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Candyce, move to Detroit or Chicago, if you want to see the effectiveness of gun control.
Les Stevens via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I'm better prepared for Texas' response after reading it, but still amazed this tragedy doesn't faze gun lovers in the least to even the obvious need to restrict assault weapons. As one told me, he's perfectly fine with an occasional slaughter like Newtown if its the cost for him to own any gun he wants to own.
Lori Trammell via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I was going to say gun free zones are the most dangerous places to be...or that assault rifles have been illegal of a very long time ... Then I read the usual " I hate perry" comment and just decided to go on to work..
Les Stevens via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Why don't you stop playing word games? That might help.
Les Stevens via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I posted something here only to see my words twisted by a gun nut. I should have known better. Go to hell Texas.
Carlitos Way via Texas Tribune on Facebook
The numbers don't lie. More guns don't make you safer. We have idiotic rednecks running this state.
Ananth Prabhala via Texas Tribune on Facebook
After traveling to other countries where guns are restricted, what I feel is that people with criminal intentions obtain a gun one way or the other. This only makes the people following the law more vulnerable. For example in mexico killing wouldn't be that rampant if citizens were armed to protect themselves. I think laws should be made or amended looking at the global scenario before just coming to conclusions.
Karen Spivey-Cummings via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Stupid, stupid, stupid. Will we be a police state now? What about this? http://www.times-standard.com/statenews/ci_22238405/san-francisco-moves-ban-hollow-point-bullets
Ray Chacon via Texas Tribune on Facebook
key example of UK gun ban failure.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html
Karen Spivey-Cummings via Texas Tribune on Facebook
These mass shooters are now wearing bullet proof vests and body armor. Are we going to have SWAT TEAMS in public schools now? Who will pay for this?
Tim Hurst via Texas Tribune on Facebook
texas is not known for being progressive thinking, educated or sane for that matter. Nothing good has ever come out of texas.
Jim Arnold
As usual this is a stupid idea from the NRA. This will kill more children than it saves.
Les Stevens via Texas Tribune on Facebook
The reference to "assault weapons" above prompted me to post this fro Mother Jones magazine:
"Assault weapon is a nebulous and relatively recent term. It generally refers to a class of military-style, semiautomatic magazine-fed rifles and carbines that fire high-powered ammunition and carry features or modifications that could be especially useful in combat. They evolved from military assault rifles, in particular the AK-47 and the M16/M4, which are selective-fire weapons: depending on the model, the shooter can select whether the gun fires in semi-auto, full-auto, or three-round bursts.
The most common assault weapons are civilian variations on the AK-47 and M16 designs; these include the Bushmaster carbine used in the Newtown massacre last week. The Federal Assault Weapons Bill, which became law in 1994 (and expired in 2004), banned specific types of guns such as AR15s, MAC10s, and TEC9s, but it also forbade possession of rifles and handguns that featured two or more military-style modifications (pistol grips, oversize magazines, and folding stocks, for example)."
So, apparently they haven't been outlawed for years.
Oh, and the article made very clear what Neanderthal s run the Texas government, while posts here from the gun culture attest to their appropriate representation in government.
If I was a praying man like the good citizen in the first post, I would pray for the safety of my grandaughter and grandson in such a insane culture, but I can only hope for the best, as those parents in Connecticut did too, I'm sure.
Lori Trammell via Texas Tribune on Facebook
You are confusing the Ak 47 and Ar 15... And semi auto with assault. I would also pray not to have to die terrified and defenseless. I understand some might disagree .. Without insulting an entire state. I would also check with multiple references and views.
Texas RMS
As a teacher in a public school, I'd like to give a perspective from inside. Those of you who think teachers should be armed, how would this work in a practical sense? We are out and about in the building throughout the day. That means I'd have to carry a loaded weapon at all times (because if a gunman with a hundred bullets comes and begins to shoot I certainly won't have time to run to the room, get my gun, and load it.) I personally am not particularly fond of the idea of small children being around loaded guns on a constant basis. It would be really bad if I accidentally shot one of my children as I gave hugs or bent down to tie a shoe. And honestly, I am not a police officer. If that had been my desire, I would not have become a teacher. The state should pony up the money to put trained security on campus. (Oh, wait. Schools need money for that? Never mind.) And considering the huge amount of criticism that teachers receive in this state, I am truly amazed that people think this is a good idea anyway. Since so many think we aren't even capable of doing a decent job teaching, why on earth do they think adding gun-toting to our job descriptions is a good idea? And absolutely, let's let anybody and everybody that walks in bring a loaded weapon, too. That way we will have no idea who we need to pull our own loaded guns on. Come on, think with your head, not your trigger finger!
Lori Trammell via Texas Tribune on Facebook
A good u tube video is out there done by a police instructor....title :What is an assault rifle....you've probably been lied to"... Or something like that.
Les Stevens via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I'm not confusing anything. And I havrnt been lied to by anyone but the NRA.
Ananth Prabhala via Texas Tribune on Facebook
The border states currently need more security than ever. The crime from mexico is seeping through to southern parts of these states. I feel like some arguments are diverting to state hatred of some sort. Texas has the second highest GDP of 1.3 trillion (more than many countries), generated more jobs than all states combined. So some fact checking needs to be done before saying a nothing good comes out of a state.
Stanley Moore via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I thought you were going to work.
Mark Denman via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Do we follow the Constitution of the United States or not?
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
I don't see hunting in there, I don't see anything about "unless guns scare you" or "unless criminals use them to shoot people ".
"necessary to the security of a free state"
Seriously if you don't like Texas, why do you live here? Texas didn't just up and become pro-gun all of a sudden, it has been this way since the word go. We are a low taxes, low services state that believes the more freedom people have and the less government meddling the better. This isn't a new idea, and I understand it isn't for everyone, so don't live here. I dont live in Mexico because I dont like a criminal run country, I don't live in Chicago because I dont need empty promises from corrupt police, keeping guns away from me so that people with them can murder me and my family. I live in Texas because I dont want to have to fight the government to be able to defend myself (among other things :) .
There are lots of other states that are much different, dont try to make us one of them.
Mike Openshaw via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Karen, the Connecticut shooter was wearing a tactical vest; not bullet-proof by any imagination. And the use of the ar-15 was strictly a choice. ANY semi-automatic handgun in the hands of someone experienced, unleashed in a elementary school like that, could does every bit as much damage.
Andrew Brown via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Mark Denman, we have a well regulated militia, it's called the National Guard. Those were/are the ones intended to keep and bear arms, not every yahoo who can buy an AR-15.
Andrew Brown via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Mark Denman, Texas isn't a Republican dictatorship. That's why I live here. Don't pretend that you speak for everyone. You don't.
Samdavis
Comments like those of Lori, Rick Perry's perpetual homer, indicate we have a radical fringe that doesn't care about facts or casualties. Thankfully, it seems that the moderate portion of our population is moving towards responsible gun regulation. Today's comments by Wayne LaPierre, the Lori Trammell of gun rights, indicates that the extreme fringe, like the NRA, will soon cease to exert meaningful influence over public policy.
raffaele cafagna
Our money should stay in our country, for American citizens. Amazing Obama had money for failed green energy companies, chevy volts, abortions, gays getting married at West Point and of course obamanotcare, then he fakes a tear, please, it his agenda ! Also, what about the millions spent to keep his birth certificate and college transcripts sealed, you think he paid for it, not ! The guy is a screaming phoney and you have been conned.
The fact that we leave our children in a building where teachers, administrators and parents are not allowed to defend them is the only problem here. And it's disgusting ; we understand , but politicians don't. Its because they have an agenda. Its called Agenda 21. The New World Order. UN Control of the worlds population. ""over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly LET FEDERAL FUNDING FOR SEVERAL KEY SCHOOL SECURITY PROGRAMS LAPSE IN THE NAME OF BUDGET SAVINGS .
...Government job hires molesting our children is okay, government drones maiming and killing women and children non-combatants in Pakistan, carpet bombing of women and children non-combatants in Libya is okay, government gun running providing weapons to Mexican drug cartels that are used on US and Mexican citizens is okay.,20 new F16 donated to Egypt is okay.. the Benghazi murder is okay ...and I don't see Obama shedding fake tears for those casualties. Well, at least we have plenty of funds to spend on TSA agents to search little toddlers and old ladies in wheelchairs on a daily basis! But THEY quietly LET FEDERAL FUNDING FOR SEVERAL KEY SCHOOL SECURITY PROGRAMS LAPSE IN THE NAME OF BUDGET SAVINGS .
They want Gun Control for citizens but Give guns to illegals as they are walked back and forth, to and from Mexico. Obama never seemed to cut funding to the Welfare, Food Stamps, Medicaid or "Obama phone" programs. He wasted BILLIONS of dollars on crony-connected, "green energy" boondoggles that failed miserably. Urkel made sure that all the ACORN affiliates/umbrella groups got tons of money to make sure the welfare bums made it to the polling places.....; has increased foreign aid by 80%, each year Billions of our tax dollars to just about every country in the world now. Over $300 Billion is spent on illegal aliens each year.
Billions spent on some of the most stupid grant studies,WHY A BEE FLIES ,WHY ASIAN WOMEN HAVE SEX WHEN THEY ARE DRUNK , A SHRIMP ON A TREADMILL , and on and on. There are so much nonsense they spend our money on. But THEY quietly LET FEDERAL FUNDING FOR SEVERAL KEY SCHOOL SECURITY PROGRAMS LAPSE IN THE NAME OF BUDGET SAVINGS .
Obamas plan...DISARM American Citizens...Arm his thugs.
Yea lets punish those guns ! My heart goes out to the children and families of that school but blaiming the gun isn't right . A gun is like a car or a knife or any other object that can kill if in the wrong hands . The children dont deserve this but a gun can't do any thing unless some idiot is there to pull the trigger .Blame the man not the gun .When our government takes away our 2nd amendment the right to keep and bear arms there will be nothing left to keep them from taking all our other rights. I personaly feel our government is behind all this anyway. The feds have access to mind controll drugs and they can make any one do what they want them to do.
HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT THE PLACES WHERE CONCEALED CARRY IS PROHIBITED IS WHERE THE BIG MASSACRES TAKE PLACE ???
I'm sorry for the families, but I'm more sorry that this whole thing was set up by the anti-gun crowd
What is the point? We live in a LAWLESS society where our leaders break our laws constantly. If they can do it why can't everyone else? We are too soft on criminals and unwilling to take action against those in our society who are a threat to themselves and others. We will see more schools attacked because it is safe for the criminals to go there. There is no one there that can fight back!!
If guns were made illegal, someone that wants to kill will get them anyway. People have to protect themselves, not be sitting ducks.
What is this country coming to with so much hate, fear and racism in the last 4 years. And will get worse in the next 4 years. The problem is not guns its VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES. Any question about that just watch one of these games * DOOM * a Horrific game that totally screws your mind.
raffaele cafagna
@Candyce Byrne
http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2012/12/18/446-school-age-childre...
The cesspool known as Chicago probably has the toughest gun laws in the country, yet despite all the shootings, murders, and bloodshed, you never hear a peep about this from the corrupt state run media. In Chicago, there have been 446 school age children shot in leftist utopia run by Rahm Emanuel
The NewsMedia DO Not Mention this . Why ????
raffaele cafagna
there were seven schools all within 10 minutes of this guys house. The one he "hit" was the only one that had a "Gun Safe Zone" sign. If that's true, then he'd been scoping these places out
Darrell J. Gonzales via Texas Tribune on Facebook
First they have to learn to fund police officers in our schools! Having teachers carry concealed weapons is the worse possible idea ever; schools are meant for learning and CREATIVE THINKING not an open range for trouble. The State of Texas has cut so many programs, including adding more police officers and teachers in our schools they are simply trying to "Rubber Stamp" the whole issue in the next session next year! It will never happen! This prehistoric way of thinking is absolutely exactly the way of thinking by conservative Republicans; A gun is an answer for them every-time! They are being greedy for everything!
Michael Giberson via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Gun control is a social policy with a racist heritage which currently sends more blacks and Hispanics to prison than white people. More stringent gun control laws would likely just expand the ability of the state to put mostly poorer young black and Hispanic males in jails.
http://blog.independent.org/2012/12/21/who-goes-to-prison-due-to-gun-control/
Mike Openshaw via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Andrew, the statement of the REASON for the right, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the CONTENT of the right. And, no, Texas is NOT a dictatorship; but your viewpoint- the the viewpoint of the Texas Trib itself- is very much in the minority here (outside of Austin).
David Spratt
Teachers are underpaid, under appreciated, and people take their children and leave them in their care for half the day,,, but they are not capable of defending them if the need arise? Basically some are now attacking the intelligence and impugning the decision making capabilities of the very people they formerly claimed to hold in such high esteem.
Many teachers do hold CHL's already. Many teachers are former military or active reserve members. Many teachers actually hunt ,and own firearms .
One news story stated that the teachers ran towards their little charges in an attempt to shield and protect them. Running towards an armed gunman and throwing your body at him in a futile attempt to stop this was noble ,,, but pointless. Nobody is saying every single teacher should be armed. Not everyone of them would be capable of pulling the trigger anyway.
I do not know if the stories of these teachers reactions are embellished or not, but if true then they did instinctively what most people would do and they showed exceptional bravery and presence of mind dealing with the situation. Had one of them been armed there is no doubt in my mind that the death toll would have been lower and by their actions I also have no doubt that if one had been armed they would have done what needed to be done.
The logical course ,,, since budgets are strapped,,, is to make use of the people already in place rather than hiring more. They are going to be the first ones to confront any attacker willingly or unwillingly. They already are placing their lives on the line going to work every day in a gun free zone with no means of defense should the need arise. None of us leave home on any given day expecting we will be the victim of a violent crime,, but it can happen anywhere anytime. Restricting the rights of law abiding Citizens or denying the right of self defense to them because there are criminals in the world that do not respect the law is a twisted way of thinking. Because a criminal may break the law and steal your weapon is a reason to prevent you from having a particular weapon does not make sense.
Someone may steal my truck drink and kill someone with it or rob a bank using it,, should I not be able to own a truck? Banning semi automatics is a backwards attempt to place the Citizens at a disadvantage in having a less effective weapon than the criminal who does not care they may be banned. Or is it an attempt to put the Citizens on par with criminals when both only have revolvers and single shot firearms?
The emotion should be placed to the side for a moment and consideration should be put on what will be the most effective. Some people just do not like guns period. These people live in a world as they would like it to be. A few more laws will not deter criminals and banning a few types of weapons will not diminish these criminals ability to commit crimes, but these laws will diminish law abiding Citizens ability to defend themselves.
Samdavis
The only word capable of describing those who would put guns in schools and arm teachers is "Stupid". Wayne LaPierre''s disastrous press conference showed how ludicrous this line of reasoning really is.
gypsy314 ne
Gun free zones kill. sooner this law is removed from the books the better.
raffaele cafagna
1.) Gun Free Zones- each and every atrocity takes place in such an environment. Such environments invite the psychotics and sociopaths to prey upon defensless people because they know it is highly likely they will not be confronted by an armed citizen there.
2.) Psychiatric medicines. Both Anti-depressants and anit-psychotics work 180 degrees from advertised; they actually cause the violent episodes, and come with warnings that they can cause suicidal thoughts, and homicidal impulses.
The problem is with our society not guns. We teach our kids about violence from the time they are toddlers; we allow them to watch hours upon hours of violent T.V. and play video games that promote killing , and not only killing, but killing Cops. This crap is ingrained in their minds from very, very early ages. Then to top it off, the parents and other adults engage in these games only to reenforce the validity of this crap. GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM, PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM.
Strange how Hollywood doesn't mind making fortunes doing movies that engrain killing and violence, yet they want gun control... .WHAT HYPOCRITES.
This guy in Connecticut was a gamer. We need to end the violent video games that have hardened, particularily young men, society to shooting and killing is acceptable. We need to recognize and treat mental health problems., The mental health system no longer exists. We have seen 3 young men in their 20's commit murder in the past few months. One even contacted his psycharist prior to the shootings.
Look at Fast and Furious.
How did a gun belonging to a former assistant special agent in charge at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives end up at a crime scene in Mexico where five died, including a Mexican beauty queen?
That's the question being asked by congressional investigators and ATF officials in Phoenix.
A FN Five-Seven semi-automatic pistol, a high powered handgun originally
restricted to military and law enforcement customers, was recovered by Mexican police at the scene of a Nov. 23 shootout between the Sinaloa Cartel and the Mexican military.
Records show the gun was purchased in January 2010 by George Gillett, the former No. 2 in the ATF office in Phoenix. Gillett now works at ATF headquarters in Washington as a liaison to the federal Bureau of Prisons. We the people, Must keep our freedom, but we must also be aware of the kooks and paid wackos that undermine our way of life. Mental misfits, Muslim wackos that blows themselves in crowded public places.
Please , to all of you, Please do not judge me ; I do not make this up , it is dayly news that I read.
They want an inanimate object (the weapon) held responsible rather than make a judgement about the shooter being good, bad, or evil.
This young guy was the essence of "E V I L" ! ! ! He was B A D ! ! ! He should have been in isolation BUT THAT would have required someone to make a negative judgement about his character. Liberal progressive democrat philosophy requires that everyone and anyone can be and do whatever they want and now it includes legally inhaling cannabis. We are NOT to be judgmental about ANYTHING until it's too late.
Samdavis
gypsy and rafaelle, you two certainly are the well-educated people who I would turn to for advice. Neither of you can make a lucid, well-documented comment. Thank goodness you are both rabid Republicans.
Marnie Tunay via Texas Tribune on Facebook
"Texas leaders are pushing to allow guns in more places." Of course they are. It's "no guns in the restaurant, please" ol Texas.
Bill Asher
Arm the students. That's the only way to stop the violence. And when they get a failing grade or don't make the team...well you know...
Wally Parnel via Texas Tribune on Facebook
With 160,000 schools in th US, and maybe $100,000 a year to arm, train, maintain, armed schools. the gun manufacturers, gun stores, and gun owners own this cost. Why should everyone have to pay for this.