Amid Bills and Debate, Another Campus Shooting
News of multiple gunshot victims at the North Houston campus of Lone Star College on Tuesday will likely weigh heavily on the minds of Texas lawmakers as they prepare to consider multiple bills relating to campus safety.
On Jan. 17, state Sen. Brian Birdwell, R-Granbury, filed Senate Bill 182, which would allow concealed handgun license holders to carry weapons on college campuses. Debate over the legislation, carried in previous sessions by now-former state Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio, has been heated, and the bill has not made it through the Senate.
While some argue that allowing guns would improve safety ...
Comments (68)
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
No fuel. Period. This only happens at school were people are defenseless, this would not happen at a police station. You know?
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Ban ALL no gun zones, we have the right to protect ourselves and to not wait on police to secure the area with camera crews
Bambi Clark via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I guess we did not have enough armed people at that college. (Using TEA logic) smh
Martha Dunkelberger via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Armando -- do you have people carrying guns into your workplace?
Martha Dunkelberger via Texas Tribune on Facebook
guns on campus is a universally BAD idea
Bambi Clark via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Oh yes, lift the gun zone ban and let's just have a shoot-out on campus like the wild west. (More TEA logic)
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
This is fact, ma'am. We have the right, and not everyone will use it. So it is not a bad idea, it is a possible solution to all these gun shootings.
Martha Dunkelberger via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Do people carry guns into your work place Armando?
Casey Bennett via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Only if you are the one doing the shooting. Tell me exactly WHY it would be a 'bad' to be able to protect yourself in situations just like this one!!
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
This would not, or rarely, happen at a police station or an army/military base. Schools are the perfect place to go on a shooting spree, ma'am. That is fact.
Adam Silva via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Armando, this happened at Ft. Hood.
Dara Quackenbush via Texas Tribune on Facebook
You do not want guns on college campuses. As a former professor, I can tell you it's a bad idea. There's not yet the level of maturity there and emotions can run high. I would have hate to have thought what might have happened if some of my students were carrying.
Robert Moorhead via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Hey Armando, Lone Star College has armed guards, police and a Second Amendment Academy to teach the students about guns... none of these did any good.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I didn't say it is impossible. But we must use logic here. Police come to the rescue, and when there is terroristic threats the military response with action. We must be able to do the same here. Please just take it into consideration, I am not trying to start an argument with anyone, I just want people think and not let the media overwhelm you with anti gun propaganda. We need more security or no guns zones must be reexamined.
Dara Quackenbush via Texas Tribune on Facebook
What needs to happen is more mental health awareness training for the faculty and students. A friend of mine was surprised we received no training on this. Most campuses have some resources, but even then, the stigma needs to be lifted on getting help. I had a student who I suggested he see someone and recommended our counselors, but he refused to go.
Casey Bennett via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I am not advocating vigilante type shootings,,,,but if there is a gun fight, or my life is in immediate danger,,,,,,I want to be able to defend myself instead of hiding like some little coward.
Lisa Ahrlett via Texas Tribune on Facebook
In what way is it universally bad idea to have concealed carry on campus? nobody other than the person carrying would know they were carrying (hence "concealed"), and if somebody was goign to commit a gun crime on campus, they would not hesitate becasue they were not licensed to carry. There is no license that allows a person to harm or kill another (unless it's self defense), so i don't think they really care too much about the technicalities. I work in an administrative office of a large, Texas university and hate knowing that if whack job ever decided to shoot on campus, our only hope is UPD, who cannot be everywhere at once. Do you have actual logic behind your stance other than guns are bad? Logic and liberal stances do not always go hand in hand, I know.
Martha Dunkelberger via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Armando, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this in a respectful way. But, as other posters have already commented, there was a mass shooting at Ft. Hood (a military base). There were armed police officers at Lone Star today -- just like there are every single day. Your right to own a weapon cannot supersede the rights of the rest of the citizenry. I don't want to take all the guns away from people -- and by the way, neither does the President before we go down that path. But, guns do NOT belong on a college campus. They just plain do not.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Well, that is good to know...thank god they could stop it before more lives were lost. We do not live in a perfect peaceful world, buddy. We have crazed people walking the street and in our communities. These people do not justify us being judge on our guns right, that all I'm trying to get at.
Renee E. Babcock via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Armando, this wasn't a shooting spree. It was two guys arguing, and one whipped out his gun. The location in this case was immaterial.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Im sure more lives would have been lost waiting on the police to arrive from a 5-10 min drive. So, as I said, thank god these armed people and citizens were there to stop this tragedy.
Martha Dunkelberger via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Armando, no citizens intervened. Trained, armed security forces stopped the gunfire. Two innocent bystanders were injured and a third person had a heart attack because someone used a gun to settle a dispute. The shooters probably aren't "bad guys". They're probably not mentally ill. They're just idiots with guns.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Ok, Renee. Cool, that is good to know. I also know that the media and politicians take advantage of these tragedies. I just wanted to share my opinion, that's all. I'm glad to hear it was not a larger plan of killing.
Aldo Merino via Texas Tribune on Facebook
By Armando's logic, we'd never see Afghan security forces be able to successfully shoot or kill American and/or international troops overseas, and yet they managed to do so in record numbers in recent years. Ditto with the Gifford's shooting in Tucson where there were armed bystanders. Or, at noted, Ft. Hood. There are no shortage of examples.
Unfortunately, that ideological thesis falls apart the second it meets reality.
If you want guns everywhere, legal or not, then you'll have to accept the collateral damage of that choice, which is the simple reality that you're going to lose a tremendous number of lives and injure a tremendous number of innocent people each year as a consequence.
Mike Moeller via Texas Tribune on Facebook
If a person has a CHL permit, why shouldn't they be allowed to carry guns on campus, whether it is a student or teacher. CHL holders are much safer to be around. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm
Martha Dunkelberger via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Mike, do people carry guns into your workplace? Do you have those people's futures in your hands? Did you just give them their last failing grade (which they earned, fair and square).
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
This my be true, Martha, but I don't understand what you are getting at? I already explained that we don't live in a perfect world, we live in a world with bad people (people who choose to act poorly) and with idiots. I get it, do you, ma'am? I am glad to hear the train officer were able to secure the violence, but I am also current that a TRAINED citizen could have don't the same. The police budge doesn't give you special powers that make you shoot better or what have you. It was the training of these individuals that saved lives. We, as a populous, must be/demand better training for our citizens that choose to be armed. But I still feel that no guns zones are where MOST guns violence happens, or perhaps gang related gun violence is higher...I am not sure, I have to research that, I guess.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
We also have idiots that spend too much money and are bankrupting our country, but it seems not many people get "fired" up about that. :(
Martha Dunkelberger via Texas Tribune on Facebook
people don't die from budget crises Armando
Susan Beebe via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Ah shoot!!
Aldo Merino via Texas Tribune on Facebook
The police badge doesn't make a person Superman but it does give a person full time training to perform a job under stressful circumstances, which is more than I can say for the rest of the civilian population.
And just because you don't have a gun does not make a person helpless.
Some Othername
A 2011 #Texlege #GunFreeZone #Fail
Defenseless Victim Zones
KHOU Interviewed one Student there who had been in Military, but ...
Perhaps they need bigger signs?
Maybe a new law making it illegal for a criminal to shoot people in "FEEL SAFE" zones??
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Martha, answer me this- why is it that we shouldn't have concealed carry permits for the work place or for school? Because idiots may shoot people? Well, guess what, ma'am, it still happens. How many trained police officer shoot one another on the job on purpose? How many officer shoot their colleges because of a dispute? Please, riddle me this.
Nathan Malone via Texas Tribune on Facebook
To people posting about the shooting at Fort Hood, you need to realize that Fort Hood was a GUN FREE ZONE. In other words, there were soldiers everywhere, but they were all unarmed, because they were NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS ON BASE. If they had been armed, the shooting would obviously have been stopped a lot faster.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Aldo, what are you trying to say? That we should ban all guns?
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Ha! Adam silva, you look silly now, don't you?
Some Othername
Martha Dunkelberger, GunFree Zones are a universally BAD Idea, that is where ... Lubys, Virginia Tech, Columbine, U.T., Aurora, Fort Hood, NewTown. massacres occurred (among many many others)
Martha Dunkelberger, If you shop at a grocery Store, go to church, go to a movie, go to a mall, pick up kids at school in a school parking lot, go to a bank, go in a WalGreens or drug store, go in a convenience store, but gasoline, .... etc ...you are around armed civilian people; you just do not know it as "concealed is concealed"
Martha Dunkelberger via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Armando, your earlier tone is much more conducive to discussion than the one you're turning to now.
Mike Openshaw via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Martha, at any one time my office probably has 4-6 concealed handguns on site- non-law enforcement. Couldn't feel safer. Heck the other night, we were working late prepping for a big software go-live and our network security guy (a former Marine sniper) was sitting at his desk, cleaning two of the CEOs guns. We kidded each other about it: 'No Pressure, Guys!" This is a VERY safe place to work.
Personally, I have - years ago- used a gun to defuse a situation and likely save my own life. Such things NEVER get the news flashes and continuing coverage but are WAY more numerous than the other situation.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Martha, you have yet to answer to my last set of questions, and people's lives can be extremely altered by a national budget crisis, you may not think so because you are financial stable, but lack of money can push people to do insane things...like rob a bank for instance. So perhaps you should reconsider what you said about misuse of government/military spending effecting people's lives, because, in my opinion, it can kill in some way.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Aldo, you are so silly. "Just because you don't have a gun, doesn't make you hopeless"? Just shut up. I am sure if you had a gun in your face, you would surely think-"ah, fuck...should have got a gun at Walmart yesterday!" Haha you are too funny. I think we can also all agree that the police should not be the only group of people in our society that get "full time training". We all should have access to knowledge and to say that citizens with guns rights should have as much training because they don't have a badge is just stupid.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Ok, Martha, you are right. It was wrong of my to make fun of the other users here on this Facebook thread, but I get upset when I feel like these news reports are trying to "add fuel to the gun bate". Because for me, and many others, there is no bate. We have the rights granted to us by the constitution, our common law, and I do not appreciate people being critical of my rights or people trying to imply that all people are, as you said, idiots. Because that is not the case. You know, Martha?
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Oh and you never answered my questions, just saying.
Clinton B. Portis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
This thread is brimming with anecdotal evidence.
Aldo Merino via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Armando: I'm trying to say your logic is crap (as is your baiting).
You're asking a lot of rhetorical questions without clearly having looked at any actual data. The U.S. has gun violence that is an order of magnitude higher than comparable developed countries, even when taking cultural and population factors into account, and lax gun laws and a country inundated with guns, legal and illegal, are part of that problem. I don't care if you're for or against guns or gun control measures in general, that's just the reality of the problem.
Police are trained, full time, and are certainly trained appropriately in how to use a firearm and when and under stressful circumstances. This is their full time job and that means they're more well suited to handling these situations than the vast majority of civilians.
Can guns help stem violence? Potentially, under the right circumstances, but it's mostly just utter fantasy to think that all these mass shootings -- let alone any shooting -- could be stopped with more guns. Besides, the mass murders belie the real day-to-day, petty violence which takes more lives annually than any single mass shooting.
Veronica Villalpando via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Well, legally I cannot carry a handgun as I am a convicted felon. I do not feel the need to carry a gun nor do i feel helpless or like a coward. I would not want to face off w/ someone who was on a shooting rampage. Further, if someone had a gun to ones face, them having a gun wouldn't help them. The moment they moved, they'd be shot with their gun on their waistline. Further, I wouldn't want every Tom dick and Harry with a gun. Not everyone has the same reaction to crisis and if someone shot my daughter trying to fend off a rampage shooter, I'm still going to be pissed and want them prosecuted because they should have exercised better judgement. Everyone having a gun isn't the solution. Lastly, you can get as much gun training experience as you want.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Ian sorry, Adam. I should not have written a rude comment like I did. But I just feel like you had whole in what your argument was. So I am sorry bout that, buddy.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Adam, I don't need data to know my rights. My constitutional rights is what I am, and was original, defending. That's all, buddy. Can we agree on the constitution?
Johnny Hughes via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Well two guys had guns, both to protect the campus from the other guy. If more had guns, we'd have more protection and everyone in the hall could shoot. Some sissty college students won't bring a gun. Shun them
Leath DeRitter via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Armando- No one is threatening your constitutional rights. There is no right to carry a concealed weapon outlined in the Constitution- actually I don't think the founding fathers ever considered that there might be such weapons as assault rifles and guns that could shoot more than one bullet within 5 minutes.I feel sorry for you that you live in such an atmosphere of fear.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
We didn't have the term concealed weapon in 1776, leath. And I was arguing that we, the people have the right to carry weapons, concealed or not, to protect ourselves from threats. I don't live in an atmosphere of fear, the people trying to ban guns do, ma'am. I bet the founding father also never thought that a small group called the federal reserve, which is as federal as FedEx, would be in charge of our country's financial status. Also, I don't think the founding fathers would have foreseen America have nearly 380,000,000 people being represent in congress by such a small group of people. In closing, I do not fear my atmosphere, as you put it, I fear ignorance in our country.
Lori Trammell via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Surely anyone can see that not allowing responsible people to exercise their second amendment right is just getting folks killed.
Mike Openshaw via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Leath, the First Amendment wasn't written to cover the internet either.. Are you saying it doesn't? And Veronica, in the Oragon mall shooting, as the guy was trying to clear his jammed weapon, a CCW holder drew down on him- but could not get a clear line of fire- but he WAS seen by the shooter. The CCW holder moved to a store trying to get a better line, but the shooter took his own life first. If he had NOT disrupted the shooter, there may have been far more casualties in that crowded mall.
These mass shootings occur simply because the shooter EXPECTS everyone to be unarmed and in their power. As soon as that's not the case, they tend to fold. In this specific case today, this confrontation between two antagonists could've happened anywhere.
Aldo Merino via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Guns are certainly getting people killed, there's no question about that.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Yeah, Aldo, and pens misspell words, and alcohol drives cars, and the government's budget spends itself...yeah, Aldo, you figured it out.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I am sorry for being rude, Aldo...you just make me very upset with what you post. Sorry, bud. Lol
Aldo Merino via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Needless to say, that analogy doesn't make any sense, but it's also apparent you're not even trying to make a rational argument in any shape, way, or form.
It's all just hypothetical drivel operating in a vacuum devoid of reality and where the answer is fixed.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I respect you, Aldo (as well as the other opinions), but can we at the very least agree on the constitution? If you argue that one of our constitutional rights can be taken or altered in any way, well, could it not also happen for our other beloved rights? Can we agree on the constitution, our country's common law?
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
That's sad...
Aldo Merino via Texas Tribune on Facebook
That's a complete red herring. You can wrap your arguments in the Constitution, but it's apparent you aren't actually familiar with it or any pertinent case law or you'd realize that the Supreme Court, while upholding people's rights to have a firearm, also acknowledges that limitations on such a right are also perfectly legal (the boundaries of which are being perpetually tested in either direction).
Of course, you're also on record as supporting to impeach a president with no actual illegal offenses, so I sincerely question your basic knowledge of the law, your impartiality, let alone the authenticity of your arguments.
Armando Alanis via Texas Tribune on Facebook
The argument is the constitution, Aldo, I didn't wrap it in anything, but what it is. If you go back to my first comment, Aldo, you will see that I was arguing that we have right, in this country of ours, to bear arms, and I don't think that should be limited to schools and so on. So that is the argument that you have clearly not understood. That is sad if you do not understand the argument, Aldo. But at any rate, I think we are all done here. Have a good day, everyone. America is so beautiful to me, and I am proud to be American.
Aldo Merino via Texas Tribune on Facebook
That's not an argument, that's an object.
There's nothing to understand in particular; you're just repeating the same thing over and over again in broad, nonsensical terms, without regards to specifics (rulings pertaining to the extent of the 2nd amendment, the distinction between cops and civilians, data on gun violence, etc.).
*That's* the sad bit.
gypsy314 ne
Gun free zones and cowards kill our children and us. It is time to remove all gun free zones from law books and allow Americans to protect the children and self from cowards. I know the liberal cowards want nothing less then to disarm Americans so they can control Americans.
gypsy314 ne
Fort Hood was a terrorist attack that had red flags about the terrorist that liberals and Obama choose not to act on and still to today have not called a spade a spade. The liberals have done nothing but try and cover it up but do not worry help is on the way. Either our elected leaders stop Obama and crew by means of impeachment or the American people will remove this liberal socialist from our country. You would have the cowards slaughter our children or us then protect our self. This is liberal cowards thinking and the whole problem is thinking like this. Gun free zones kill our children and us bottom line and it is time for our elected leaders to take the gun free zones laws of the books.
Sergio Hernandez De Santos via Texas Tribune on Facebook
His mom called him to dinner
Veronica Villalpando via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Mike in your example it doesn't sound as though the CCW person was starring down a barrel. I seriously doubt that if someone had a gun pointed directly in your face as Armando, I believe, stated you wouldn't draw a gun. Natural reaction is preservation. I don't care either way. I don't think guns belong in everyone's hand. I think that's crazy. Prime example, y'all are debating the constitution and cannot agree to disagree. Imagine a gun in the hands of someone over whose right about the constitution. Far stretch, but this is the dumb stuff ppl are being killed over. Anywho just my thoughts. Have a great day.
Veronica Villalpando via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Oh and I believe I also stated not everyone responds to crisis in the same way. So while this guy responded very calmly it's not the case for all. That's all I have to say.
Cindy Rhoton Cook via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Oh please, you think we have our liberties? They were compromised when Bush signed in the Patriot Act.