Bitter Battle Over Same-Sex Benefits Divides El Paso
EL PASO — Pastor Tom Brown wants homosexuals to repent and turn to Christ. He certainly does not want them to be given taxpayer-financed health benefits.
Brown, the charismatic leader of Word of Life Church, an independent evangelical congregation of about 1,500 members, is on a mission to ensure that the domestic partners of city workers no longer get health insurance. He is spearheading an effort to oust the mayor and two City Council members who supported an ordinance allowing the city to pay for the health benefits of unmarried employees’ domestic partners — gay and straight.
“They want to reward ...
Comments (40)
Jaack Tyler
As a church leader, Pastor Brown should look at his own flock. Your flock is full of fornicators. Adultery is RAMPANT in America and NO ONE is saying anything about "affairs", etc. We have them on TV every day and night, Prime Time no less. But not one word from the pulpit about what Hollywood is conveying to your flock.
Here is your message. Adultery is the 6th commandment. This is where the true fornicators are. They have coveted their neighbor's wives and husbands. That's the10th commandment. This adultery & divorce is your cause of marriage failure. "What God has put together let no man put asunder." Mark 10:9
The message put forth by so many so called Christians has been hatred, not the UNCONDITIONED LOVE that is Christ's message. Dividing people is NOT the true Christian way. Put your priorities where they belong. The message is love.
Not everyone believes the way you do. Christianity isn't in the religion of the majority of the world. Forcing your brand of religion on others is the ISLAMIC way but not the American way. Preaching politics from the pulpit also threatens your tax exempt status. Politicing is for politicians.
Martin Luther once said, "Though we commit adultery a hundred times a day and as many murders, nothing can separate us from the love of Christ Jesus." He also said something else, bad boy of theology that he was, "Sin boldly and love Christ more boldly still." Throughout true Christianity, the ETERNAL message has been UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
But your message is " Let us go after the homosexuals because they are marginalized, easy targets. Marginalizing and trying to demonize people is wrong. You are after so few people with this campaign AGAINST loving couples. I thought you had a truly important message.. Have you forgotten the poor, hungry families and homeless. 1 out of 4 children in America don't know where their next meal is coming from. Go to the city fathers and demand better for the poor, the hungry children and families, the homeless and forgotten veterans. Billions to China, banks, Wall Street, greed in Washington, cry out for a voice to redirect America to focus on you flock and all the other needy people. 'I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.' Mark 25:45
Love the sinner, hate the sin is no where in the bible! It was created by a Hollywood styled script writer, a clever word manipulator. It is NOT the WORD. You have lost your way and the WORD.
Automatic ISO
it was people of color whom Christians enslaved, segregated, dehumanized and isolated; then it was women who were forced to accept second class status; and finally, it was the homosexual persons, who have become the newest victims of our guilt-laden religion. Our definition of homosexuality as "a deviant, immoral and evil lifestyle" is justified by fundamentalists fear and hostility. Darwin's ideas threatened this strange, hostile theology on which the Christian Church built its power. Homosexual prejudice is thus only the newest battleground on which the church seeks to preserve its view of life and to justify its continued negativity toward its human victims. It is no wonder that resisting Darwin and repressing homosexuality elicits both the energy and the anger that it does in Christian circles today.
What is really going on underneath the church's attempt to defeat evolution, suppress the rights of women and to vilify people of color.....and to repress homosexual persons is a struggle between a dying theology, based on false premises and manifesting itself in centuries of abuse, and a new, human, celebratory theology that is struggling to be born. In this new theology the call of the Christ figure is not to rescue the sinner so that the sinner can become the abuser of others; it is rather to empower us to become so fully human that we do not need a victim to victimize, but can become a new humanity, people who are not struggling to survive, but who are capable of giving our life and love away. A fully human Jesus, a new way besides sacrifice to view the cross and a new meaning to be found in the earliest Christian creed that in Jesus God has been engaged will be the hallmarks of this new theology. It is time for the Christian Church to make this shift in a conscious way. Jesus was silent in the Bible on homosexuality.
John Shelby Spong
phillip baker
I have come to expect these knew jerk reactions from Christian church leaders of the extremist variety, the so-called fundamentalists. Indeed I've been around long enough to have watched these opportunists make their millions and millions of dollars targeting a series of foes, always portrayed in apocalyptic hyperbole. Way back when, it was keeping the races separate. The Bible was used to support slavery and the following apartheid after emancipation. Then arose a perverse, truly archaic battle to keep women in their "true" place- at home, serving their lord and master husband, making babies. Then they really hit gold with the arising of the Soviet Union! Atheist commies are coming, oh my! That brought in the bucks by the bushel basket. But then the USSR crumbled and a new foe was needed, and thus was born this fanatic demonization of being gay. OMG! Western civilization will fall for sure unless we stamp out the scourge of gays among us. (Of course, gays have always been among us, contributing a great deal, all the while "Western civilization" was being built!)
It's not really who they target that counts, just so long as they can scare ignorant people into believing that "they" are out there, threatening to dismantle all that is good and right. They sell fear- always have, always will. Fear brings in far more gold than selling a message of love. And fear is what they are selling.
But the Browns of this world are desperate. They have clearly lost the so-called "culture wars". As the older folks die off, the newer generations just aren't buying all this fear mongering. The old tried and true system of raising millions by working up fear is dying out- finally. People are figuring out they have been scammed. Those gays Brown gets so exercised about are also taxpayers. They work in our cities and contribute to the rich social fabric that is modern America. They are neighbors, friends, sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, even preachers.
El Paso needs to have a conversation about its future. Does it want to be a hostile, unwelcoming city of irrational haters, or the beautiful, open, inviting city it can be. This gay man will watch this closely and see how El Paso defines itself. If it is a city of haters, then shame on them. I'll not come there nor spend my money in hotels,etc. Your city will become known as mean and hateful. Is that really what you want?
Finally, as a non-Christian myself, can somebody please explain to me how this frenzied obsession with gays came to be? I've read the Bible (which is ironic, since so few Christians have), and Jesus had not a word to say on the matter. Did he not get the memo??
Daniel Fee
Gee Pastor B is a piece of work, truly. So many critical angles on his pat conclusions about the basic immorality of LGBT folks as persons exist, both in six or seven decades of published peer-reviewed empirical studies as well as in just about as many decades of critical religious scholarship ... that actually I am still just a bit amazed that he can harangue decent, law abiding El Paso LGBT citizens for not being straight. One presume the pastor is authorized to do this, by God no less in the pastor's own mind and heart, and of course, let us not forget that the pastor is a better person, and allegedly closer to God and neighbor because we can presume the pastor is straight. Besides all that, the cause and effect link between the pastor's flat earth prejudices about LGBT folks in El Paso, and the most likely real world impact of having health care insurance is ... what can a common sense person say? ... well, let's call the alleged link, doubtful. (I am putting it mildly, I think.) Since when was preaching Jesus' Good News significantly dependent on making sure that sick people did not have equal access to health care, just because, say, they happen to LGBT and work for the city? The presumed cause/effect, the presume link just does not make real sense. Next thing you know, Pastor Brown will probably tell El Paso citizens that imprisoning people for being LGBT makes good sense, or kicking them out of housing, or refusing restaurant or library or school enrollment makes good sense, so that we can properly encourage LGBT folks in El Paso to repent according to his special antigay, flat earthisms. Alas. Few LGBT people in El Paso are going to be turned into straight meanies like the pastor, just because he does not want adults or children to have health care. How can any common sense citizen affirm that this denial makes human sense, let alone is a special divine call to love, justice, and genuine repentance? If the pastor were doing this to any other human group, we would pretty quickly realize it is a public form of blackmail. Do what I say, pay me off, or else? Alas. Lord have mercy. drdanfee
phillip baker
Amen, Daniel Fee!! I wish I had been able to articulate this pastor's hypocrisies half as well. I just don't get these fundamentalist Christians. It is as if there is only one sin left in all the world, that of being LGBT. All else is apparently under control. Wow, El Paso must be quite a city! Yet the skeptic in me wonders if just maybe the good parson has squinted his eyes so much that ALL he can see is gays. It seems to consume churches of a certain persuasion lately. It is all they can think about, it seems. Wonder why?
But thank you Daniel Fee for a most excellent rebuttal.
Scott Rose
It could not be more obvious that this heterosupremacist theocRAT is homo-hot-and-bothered. No adult male secure in his sexuality feels any need to demonstrate that he's a "real man" by means of political gay-bashing. How is it that Brown keeps his 501(c)(3) tax exempt status? I understand that Americans United sent a letter to the IRS, asking them to rescind Brown's 501(c)(3) status as a result of his violations of terms. It truly is the height that LGBT citizens in El Paso have to subsidize Brown's political gay-bashing of them with their taxes. All decent human beings in El Paso should be examining the 501(c)(3) violations very closely and insisting that federal authorities act. The arrogance of the fraudulently religious hucksters, militantly acting without regard to the United States Constitution. Whole Christian Churches ordain out married gay and/or lesbian ministers - and their congregations are not any less truly Christian than this panhandling rattlesnake Brown.
phillip baker
I'm agreeing, Scott. The reason historically that churches have tax free status was to prevent a government from controlling/coercing religion via taxation. But there was a trade off: churches would deal in religious matters and have their say about the moral implications of policy , and then stay out of partisan politics. But today's evangelicals have long since broken that compact. The right wing Christians have become an arm of the conservative movement, which has completely co-opted the GOP. So why should they continue to enjoy tax free status? If they are going to be players in the partisan wars, then they can do so like everybody else. No tax free status.
How has it come to pass that religious views are beyond discussion in this country. Sure, they have a right to their opinion, but that does NOT mean I have to agree with it nor that I cannot dispute its validity. We have given "religion" this unwarranted status of untouchables. It's high time religion be as accountable to society as any other group that offers its opinions- no difference, no deference.
gypsy314 ne
The DOMA law is law and the homosexual gay crap needs to go away. These people need mental help and I pray they get the help needed. Pastor Brown is correct and should be supported by all. The Mayor and two council members should support the law unless they are gay or democrats. Either way is Texas doe not want to end up like California then vote out of office as many democrats as we can. Then start removing as many judges that are liberal or democrat. Then and only then can we turn this country around. Face it folks we are under attack by homosexuals and illegal aliens. I see a big battle coming soon.
Karen Spivey-Cummings via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Get Religion out of politics.
Karen Spivey-Cummings via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Very good decision I might add.
Kyle King via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Yep, we should make laws based on what religious leaders' prejudices are all about. Suuuure...
Robert Adams via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Check in with reality some time Tom Brown.
Chris Thornton via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Religion and politics go hand in hand. This country was originally founded by people that left England so they could worship in the church of their choosing instead of being forced to worship in the Church of England.
Donna Rene Johnston via Texas Tribune on Facebook
He says "they want to reward fornicators" and homosexuals, like its a bad thing!
Laura Tanner via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Last I checked, Jesus wasn't a discriminatory, judgmental asshole.... just sayin'!
Rick Scott McGuckin via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I WISH they rewarded fornicators; fact is, fornicators are having just as hard a time as everyone else. Get a life.
Carlyn Short via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Hang tough Mayor John Cook and City Council members - y'all are doing the moral thing!
John Frederick via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I'm confused, if these people are for the "defense" of marriage, why are they so against fornicators?
Erica Bozovich Hart via Texas Tribune on Facebook
yep they wanted to escape religious persecution so WHY do we STILL think it's OK to persecute others based on a certain religious view....it's not ok, period. People should not be denied health care for their dependents based on other people's moral views. They still have to pay for it, it isn't like they're getting something for nothing.
Erica Bozovich Hart via Texas Tribune on Facebook
*they have to pay premiums and they pay taxes so it's their tax money too...
Scott Rose
@gypsy314ne -- You sound like a rednecked paranoid psychotic. You certainly do not have a scientific view of human sexuality. One news flash for you is that being in favor of gay human beings' human rights does not separate along a liberal/conservative divide. Barry Goldwater was in favor of LGBT equality, as is Dick Cheney. Ted Olson published an article "The Conservative Case for Gay Civil Marriage." And by contrast, not all political liberals favor gay rights; there's a notorious bigoted NY state senator, Ruben Diaz, for example who on all other matters could be classified as a "liberal." The distinction is not between liberals and conservaties but rather between enlightened, and ignorant gay-bashing bigots. You think that if you remove all Democratic judges from the courts, your patholigical wetdream of "making the homosexual gay crap go away" will come true, but what are you going to do when a Republican judge finds DOMA unconstitutional?
Robert Adams via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Religious freedon includes the right to not be religious at all. Many of the founders were not religious at all, including Thomas Jefferson, and Ben Franklin.
Jimmy Couch via Texas Tribune on Facebook
Get marriage out of politics. Separate marriage and state.
Marcus Aguilar via Texas Tribune on Facebook
I didn't even know that El Paso played any teams out in Forney
Jaack Tyler
To gypsy314 ne try a little thought in replying with grown-ups.
You wrote",,, homosexual gay crap needs to go away. These people need mental help ...
These people are American citizens, "...homosexual gay crap.." isn't going away & has been around before monkeys walked upright and talked. Lumping gays and illegal aliens is a real stretch. But listen up gypsy314 ne.
If taken literally, Christianity is the worst PERVERSION there is!!!
"This is my body, eat it. , Take this an drink it, this my blood, Cannibalism!. & Vampires" This Christian stuff got to stop. '
Why do Christians want to FORCE their religion onto us who don't believe this mumbo-jumbo. It is so so gay ,kiss the ring Catholics, with the Preachers with the gold robes and pointy hats. Other preachers have Rolls-Royce autos, planes, houses paid for by ministries is SO GREEDY
DOMA is unconstitutional. June 14, 2011 A California bankruptcy court ruled that the Defense of Marriage Act violates the equal-protection guarantee of the U.S. Constitution.
In a decision signed in Los Angeles by 20 judges of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Central District of California, the court found that “there is no valid governmental basis for DOMA.”
Jul. 8,2011 Boston, Ma. federal judge ruled that part of the Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage as between a man and a woman, is unconstitutional.
Judge Joseph Tauro, of U.S. District Court in Boston, issued rulings on two separate cases .
"The federal government, by enacting and enforcing DOMA, plainly encroaches upon the firmly entrenched province of the state, and, in doing so, offends the Tenth Amendment. For that reason, the statute is invalid," he wrote.
In the other case, Gill v. Office of Personnel Management, Tauro ruled that DOMA violates the equal protection principles in the Fifth Amendment, according to Bay Windows.
Also, the denial of federal rights and benefits directly contradicts the 14th Amendment which also provides for substantive due process under the law. This amendment guarantees that rights conferred to one person cannot be denied to another.
Congress cannot make any law just because they can or want to. They don't have constitutional authority to do so!
Matthew Jerome via Texas Tribune on Facebook
And the good people dedicated to public service in this country... they will all move to blue states if this keeps up.
gypsy314 ne
Scotty you must be homosexual I will pray for your confuse mind. you can try and sugar coat homosexual acts but this is not a normal and they need help and most democrats supports gays and there sickness. Have a bless day scotty
Tom Sweazea via Texas Tribune on Facebook
And Tom Brown wants to rename the town "The Paso"
Scott Rose
@gypsy000 double-digit IQ -- Sugar coating homosexual acts can lead to bounteous pleasures but honey works better because it spreads so much more easily over a gay man's husband's body. You are fatuous in your public statements. Do you know what the word "fatuous" means? It means that something you have said is very stupid, but you are too stupid to realize how stupid it is.
phillip baker
Oh my, Gypsy314 ne. Where did you get all this information on who gays are, upon which you have built your entire blind unkindness to millions of humans you do not even know? I'd bet big bucks all that information came from a church somewhere. But I point out to you that certainly not all Christian churches hold these beliefs, only those on the extremes. Even Jesus himself did not feel the need to speak a word on the subject. Now, if it were all the evil you say it is, wouldn't the guy have at least mentioned it now and then? It is sad that such believers obsess so completely on their fear of gays, to the exclusion of following the true teachings of Jesus. In essence you cherry pick from your Bible those things that are comfortable to you and leave alone those that are not. Stoned any adulterers lately? Sold any daughters into slavery? (The book actually tells how to get the correct price!) Eaten any forbidden oysters, shrimp, etc? And don't get me started on pork, women who cut their hair, and especially women who speak in church when they should be silent and learn from the men who rule them. Open your eyes and at least recognize what you are doing. And then, just for a lark try reading some theological, scholarly discussions of this matter. You'll find a large volume of evidence against your assumption that your Bible condemns what is today known as homosexuality.
But for the rest of us- and yes, Gypsy, I am truly gay- we need to do a better job of reaching out to these benighted people. I try to keep in mind that many of these folks are otherwise decent people, but they have been fed a diet of lies and distortion all their lives. It is so sad to think of people deliberately being taught this hate. Preachers all over the place regularly give vivid, theatrical descriptions of the "gay lifestyle" and what GLBT's do in their actual lives. Look at the pathological "Rev" Fred Phelps!! They live- like all the country today- in enclaves of folks who think like them, so they rarely challenge what's taught, but swallow it whole and without a second of reflection. These churches are perversions of real Christianity. I suspect Jesus would be deeply ashamed of them.
But for myself I will keep trying to remember that these people are the products of a well-oiled propaganda machine and then try to accept them as fellow sufferers , even with their ignorance and learned hate. Or maybe especially because of those traits. But I am cheered in the knowledge that this illegitimate distortion of Christianity is dying out. They've lost the "culture" wars, and now they are terrified they'll have to account for their intolerance on another day. Personally I intend to pray for the Gypsy314's of this world and hope the anger and delusion that fuels their suffering will be transformed by true Christian love and compassion.
effen wright
I could care less if you are gay or straight. My concerns are that no class should be protected. If you want equal treatment - great. If you want preferential treatment - screw you. And for those who are offended by homosexuality - get over it. For those who are offended by those that are offended - get over it. I am not gay and don't profess to understand the proclivities of those who live that life - I also understand that my way is for me and to condemn anyone for not thinking or acting or doing as I do is ridiculous. Everyone has their own prejudices - everyone - and very little will change those attitudes or beliefs.
Scott Rose
I chose to be gay. Tomorrow, I will choose to be a kangaroo.
phillip baker
All too true, Effen. Indeed, this is not the only issue by far upon which Americans are just itching to be "offended". I vote we retire that word for at least 2 years. We need to be tolerant, because we are a very diverse society. But every perceived insult does not require federal action. Now, that being said, as a gay man I will point out that gays are only asking to be treated equally- to be able to love and marry as we wish, to adopt kids and/or have them ourselves, to be able to visit our loved one in the hospital, not to have to pay some lawyer a lot of $$ drawing up a mutual partnership agreement to keep grasping relative from raiding your surviving partner of all you built together, to be able to show affection for those we love without getting tossed off planes,, etc. Hate crimes? I still haven't really decided on that, but it does rather smack of special treatment. But then again, so do the laws with enhanced penalties for assault on a cop- or federal official- or a bunch of others. Just enforce the law equally, and that should take care of itself.
Scott Rose
Hate crime legislation is necessary towards effective deterrent sentencing for criminals that assault and batter a minority member with a result that other members of that same minority are caused to live in terror. When a criminal robs a victim for their money, not because they are gay, then the victim could be black, or a WASP or whatever - and they will, hopefully, receive a sufficient deterrent penalty. That robber's actions, however, do not serve to terrorize an entire identifiable minority, traditionally the victim of irrational opprobrium, discrimination and criminal targeting. A hate crime assault warrants a more severe sentence. What's more is that unless a historically victimized minority is given hate crime protections, societal bigotry can lead to that minority continuing to be less well protected than the general population. A Tea Party blogger in Florida, Rich Swier, says that anti-gay bullying is a "heatlhy" form of peer pressure. Do you have any idea of how many jurisdictions today in the US have police who will laugh at a LGBT assault victim, not take a crime report, and know that they are safe in their jobs because the local D.A. thinks that God hates fags?
phillip baker
And there from Scott Rose is just the well-considered defense of hate crime legislation that keeps me from making my decision about them. One the one hand, we're prosecuting someone for thoughts, which ought to terrify all lovers of freedom. The idea makes me very uneasy. Even the "Rev" Fred Phelps, douche that he is, is covered by the First Amendment. But I am sure old enough to remember Texas before Stonewall, Will and Grace,etc. Had I been assaulted in Kingsville, I seriously doubt I would have gotten a serious hearing from local police, or anybody , for that matter. We are evolving as a society, thankfully. Maybe hate crimes laws help that.
gypsy314 ne
Homosexuals need help right mental help is what they need. If you think homosexual actions is the norm then why is it more are not homosexual or gay what ever you want to sugar coat it with bottom line it is a sickness and needs treatment. Government needs to stay out of it and let the people deal with it. Other wise gays need to seek help. I will pray fro them to get the help they need to be normal again. I guess good thing is they cane not reproduce thank God for that.
Scott Rose
http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx
THE AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION
Sexual orientation and homosexuality
Is homosexuality a mental disorder?No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder.
gypsy314 ne
I do not think so. This is sick homosexuals are not normal and would not count on those studies.
Scott Rose
If you want to challenge the American Psychological Association as well as the American Medical Association on their intellectual mastery of medical science, then I suggest that you contact those organizations and do so.
phillip baker
Thank you, Scott Rose! Gypsy314 ne, tell me this one thing: When exactly did you choose to be straight.All this talk about LGBT's "choosing" to deviate from God's plan ignores the facts. Also ignored is that question of when YOU choose your sexuality. And hiding behind "but I;m the normal one here" just does not cut it. You'll have to do far better than that.
1) Sexuality is set in very early childhood and is immutable (That means cannot be changed) I know this because I was trained in medicine. 2) Mr. Rose's post makes it clear that NO reputable, mainstream medical or psychology organization considers being gay a mental health issue. 3) Given the indisputable - by rational people who keep themselves reasonably informed- fact that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, then it cannot be immoral. To be immoral or a "sin", the individual must have actively chosen that identity.
And I hate to disappoint you, but....1)Almost 100% of humans were born of straight parents. 2) We do, indeed, reproduce. I have two truly amazing grown kids- both straight, btw. Gays and lesbians have been having, adopting, and raising kids for always. We found our own way around the "problem".
Finally, even the Roman Catholic church does not consider "being" gay immoral. They just oddly weasel on those gay persons loving and showing love via sex. Many mainstream churches today fully accept us. There are gay clergy and at least 2 gay bishops I know of.
Because I am aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech and the inability to listen to others, I will pray for you, Gypsy, to find a way out of your blinding anger and hatefulness. This is a burden you have chosen, so you can be healed of it. I urge you to pray to your god for guidance on this matter. Does anything justify blind hatred of total strangers? Do you seriously think Jesus would approve your unloving, uncompassionate, and dishonest thinking? Consult your conscience, madam. Your soul is in deadly peril.